Photo Thief!
138 days ago
New York Nitty-Gritty

Earth to David: you are a photo thief!

http://earthtodavid.com

The guy steals my last post http://otilius.blogspot.com/2008/05/little-man-lights.html without asking--and is an EntreCard member!! Isn't that a bit ridiculous?

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138 days ago
New York Nitty-Gritty

So, good job, the guy took down the post.

138 days ago
Welcome To Earth David

Ok fucker you know what. I emailed you and apologized for using your goddamn image. Stop going around calling me a photo thief. Your pictures are not that goddamn wonderful. There is no need for you to be so fucking uppity uppity about yourself. I took it down. It's over. Let it fucking go.

Post edited 138 days ago
138 days ago
Obscure History

@ Welcome To Earth David -- Sorry dude. You steal and get caught and you pay the piper. Funny how you mention that the picture wasn't that "wonderful", but it was good enough to steal. Logic isn't your strong suit I assume?

138 days ago
Welcome To Earth David

No it's not funny at all. Yeah I thought it was nice, but it's not so nice being called a photo thief when that was totally not your intentions and that is why I changed my mind about the collection and this persons work. I apologized to this guy in an email for posting the image with a link to his photoblog. There is no reason for him to be coming to this forum calling me a photo thief

Post edited 138 days ago
138 days ago
EREC

Except, of course, that it's true. No point copping an attitude when you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

138 days ago
Welcome To Earth David

Look, I recognized the mistake. I apologized for it. He did not have to come here the way he did after I apologized. I only posted his image and link to his site so others could go there and see his photos. I meant no harm. That's all. You motherfuckers just wanna keep pressing it on don't you!?

138 days ago
Welcome To Earth David

Here is something else to think about... If I was stealing the image, would I have my face on every blog header banner that is in rotation on my blog? Would I have a portait of my face on my entrecard image defending myself in this forum with it? No I don't think a thief would show his face that way.

138 days ago
Sensory Over Load

The name calling certainly justifies your argument of course. Not only did you get your hand caught in the cookie jar, but you should wipe your chin to remove the cookie crumbs too. But hey... no sense in just simply letting us think you're not too bright, keep typing and proving it. ;)

138 days ago
xt3ch - information sharing

"Look, I recognized the mistake. I apologized for it. He did not have to come here the way he did after I apologized. I only posted his image and link to his site so others could go there and see his photos. I meant no harm. That's all. You motherfuckers just wanna keep pressing it on don't you!?"

Hey guys, i dont think you all should take him like that. He said he post a link to the real blog so one backlink to the real blog. That means traffic and rank. Now you lost the traffic. He just promoting. Dont always think the negatif side. And for New York Nitty-Gritty. You should try to contact him first. Not directly post in here. Have some ethic.

137 days ago
Monkey Fables And Tales

@ xt3ch - information sharing -- Have some ethic? If you're taking any type of content/picture from another blog without permission it's stealing.

137 days ago
Welcome To Earth David

@ Monkey Fables And Tales - Just had to put your two cents in it didn't you.

137 days ago
New York Nitty-Gritty

Look, this is all so obvious. See the thread? I posted about a problem within the EntreCard community. An hour later, problem solved. Only then does the guy mouth off. To me, the case was over.

So scream obscenities all you want, use all the mangled English you want. Nothing changes the fact, as others have said.

137 days ago
Welcome To Earth David

@ New York Nitty Gritty - First of all New York Nitty Gritty. I did not find your blog through the EntreCard Community. It's just a coincidence that I am also a member here. I found it using StumbleUpon. There is no problem within the EntreCard community, except of course the fact that you can't accept an apology. No, you have to press the issue on by making it known to people who I'm sure probably didn't care in the first place. I took the image down and I apologized for linking to you. Like I said stop being so uppity uppity about yourself.

137 days ago
New York Nitty-Gritty

You just don't get it, sir.

137 days ago
Welcome To Earth David

No I got it. That is why I apologized. You don't get it. Maybe I should spell it out for you.... You are a cry baby.

I will use this guys page on stumbleupon as an example. http://duluoz.stumbleupon.com/ Go there and count how many images he has on his page with links back to where they came from. Now I don't see anything wrong with the way he does this. It shows an example of what can be found on the pages he links to. No description or explanation is necessary. This was the same format I used to send traffic to you. It was also a reminder to myself to visit your blog another time because I do read my own blog occasionally and am more prone to visual content than I am a group of links as I'm sure many people are and will most likely click a link if they can see what is over there.......

Do us all a favor and stop crying.

137 days ago
New York Nitty-Gritty

Tears of laughter, sir. I was supposed to get traffic from YOUR site?

137 days ago
Welcome To Earth David

You could have.

137 days ago
Scramories

NYC - I feel your pain, I had someone hotlink an image from my blog to use on their Ebay store, the huge spike in my bandwidth altered me to this. Long story short, anyone that visits her store now knows that she hotlinked an image of mine.

137 days ago
Modern Glam

Hmmm......someone used a photo that I had posted on my blog, and she linked back to my blog, with a comment. That's called "fair use", and is not a copyright violation.

The image did not belong to me, it belongs to Neiman Marcus. And since I used it to promote their products, and linked to them, and gave them credit for the image, that is also fair use.

If you had used the image in a post where you commented on NYC's post about the image,or about his blog, that would also have been fair use. But you didn't. You used the image to draw traffic to your site, and even though you provided a backlink, that is not considered "fair use".

Maybe he should have let it go rather than posting this thread after you had emailed him. BUT, so should you have. Certainly, responding in the manner that you did was not in your own best interests.

Going to post some links to copyright info a little later.

Post edited 137 days ago
137 days ago
Welcome To Earth David

@ Modern Glam - "If you had used the image in a post where you commented on NYC's post about the image,or about his blog, that would also have been fair use. But you didn't. You used the image to draw traffic to your site, and even though you provided a backlink, that is not considered "fair use"."

Obviously you haven't read anything I've said here. If I simply wanted to comment on the photo I would have left the comment on his blog. I'll say it again. I did not claim the image as my own. I think this guy should have been happy that someone thought his photo work was nice enough to even at least link to it. I could have moved on as if his photo work never even existed and gave the time and effort to someone else who would have appreciated it.

I don't need to read your copyright information. As someone who often posts my own photo work as well as handmade crafts and other things that belong to me including song lyrics and poems that I have written in the past, I know a great deal about copyrights, and as I have stated and apologized for I should have asked this person if I could use his image to link to his work, but I didn't. I learned a great lesson that some people are very ungrateful for the time and attention someone gives to them when posting ANYTHING regarding what they do.

Would it have been better if I had written a grand novel describing the image as this person most obviously thought he deserved?..... or would it have been better if I had just left it alone and not told the world to go look at his blog which is essentially all I did by posting his link. Like I said I could have moved on as if I had never even saw the picture.

How many times do I need to apologize for this?

I'll add something else to this also. If I had to search for and track down an email address to every person on this planet that I wanted to link to because I thought they had something cool to check out, and then sit around and wait for them to email me back with or without permission, that would be a complete waste of my time. I would rather just forget I even saw something (in this case, his pictures) that others might be interested enough in to check out and spend my time linking to people who appreciate being recognized, which is what I thought I was doing. He could have simply asked me to remove the image instead of attacking me and calling me a thief the way he did. I would have gladly removed it at his request and avoided even mentioning his blog all together. Just because I did not write anything to go along with the photo does not mean I was fishing for traffic or claiming it as mine. That is not the case at all.

Do I have to keep repeating that?

Post edited 137 days ago
137 days ago
Avon Romance Blog

crazy!

Post edited 137 days ago
137 days ago
New York Nitty-Gritty

Reading about copyright is not the same as knowing it.

You said, "If I had to search for and track down an email address to every person on this planet that I wanted to link to because I thought they had something cool to check out, and then sit around and wait for them to email me back with or without permission, that would be a complete waste of my time."

You have a false premise because you did not merely link to me, sir. If you had only linked to me, I would have had no objection whatsoever. Link all you want but do not rip off content. Simple as that.

Heh, what you have described is called "home work". It is what many serious people actually do. Many bloggers actually work at their sites, instead of taking the easy way out. Anyway, it is a false premise in my case, since you did not need my email address, all you need to do is comment on the photo. Duh!

Your silly notion that I want some praise from you just cracks me up. You, sir, have the inflated self-worth.

Post edited 137 days ago
137 days ago
EREC

Fair use of images applies to images that are at least 95% changed from the original, and not always then if the original is recognisable. There is absolutely no valid application of fair use to complete works. None at all.

The 'I stole it but gave you credit' argument has no standing in law, logic or ethics. Creative professionals and amateurs own their works, that ownership or any specific rights or use the work are transfered only upon explicit agreement.

People take this seriously and talk about it publically because it is serious and a lot of people very clearly need to get better educated. If you want to use a picture, use one that is out of copyright, buy one or get permission to use it. If you don't, expect to be called on it. If you get called say sorry, then drop it.

Post edited 137 days ago
137 days ago
Inspire Emotion

I am going to post some links to respected sources which define "fair use". And yes, an image may be posted as fair use, but in this case, it would not be considered "fair use".

The link posted below gives the decisions in actual cases, based on fair use. Here's the first one, scroll to: 2. Artwork and Audiovisual Cases

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/9..

will post a few more later.

EREC, you are not right on the image issue.

Post edited 137 days ago
137 days ago
Inspire Emotion

Another one:

"What is fair use?

There are no hard and fast rules for fair use (and anyone who tells you that a set number of words or percentage of a work is "fair" is talking about guidelines, not the law). The Copyright Act sets out four factors for courts to look at (17 U.S.C. § 107):

  • The purpose and character of the use. Transformative uses are favored over mere copying. Non-commercial uses are also more likely fair.
  • The nature of the copyrighted work. Is the original factual in nature or fiction? Published or unpublished? Creative and unpublished works get more protection under copyright, while using factual material is more often fair use.
  • The amount and substantiality of the portion used. Copying nearly all of a work, or copying its "heart" is less likely to be fair.
  • The effect on the market or potential market. This factor is often held to be the most important in the analysis, and it applies even if the original is given away for free. If you use the copied work in a way that substitutes for the original in the market, it's unlikely to be a fair use; uses that serve a different audience or purpose are more likely fair. Linking to the original may also help to diminish the substitution effect. Note that criticism or parody that has the side effect of reducing a market may be fair because of its transformative character. In other words, if your criticism of a product is so powerful that people stop buying the product, that doesn't count as having an "effect on the market for the work" under copyright law."

http://w2.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-ip.php

137 days ago
Inspire Emotion

"When can I borrow someone's images for my blog post?

Images are subject to the same copyright and fair use laws as written materials, so here too you'll want to think about the fair use factors that might apply. Is the image used in a transformative way? Are you taking only what's necessary to convey your point? A thumbnail (reduced-size) image, or a portion of a larger image is more likely to be fair use than taking an entire full-size image. If you want to go beyond fair use, look

http://w2.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-ip.php

Post edited 137 days ago
137 days ago
Inspire Emotion

tHE FOUR FACTORS OF FAIR USE DEFINED(and these factors apply to IMAGES, as well as text)

Posting copyrighted material with crtiticism and commentary, is almost always ruled as a fair use.

"The four factors of analysis for fair use set forth above derive from the classic opinion of Joseph Story in Folsom v. Marsh, 9 F.Cas. 342 (1841), in which the defendant had copied 353 pages from the plaintiff's 12-volume biography of George Washington in order to produce a separate two-volume work of his own. The court rejected the defendant's fair use defense with the following explanation: “

[A] reviewer may fairly cite largely from the original work, if his design be really and truly to use the passages for the purposes of fair and reasonable criticism. On the other hand, it is as clear, that if he thus cites the most important parts of the work, with a view, not to criticize, but to supersede the use of the original work, and substitute the review for it, such a use will be deemed in law a piracy…

In short, we must often… look to the nature and objects of the selections made, the quantity and value of the materials used, and the degree in which the use may prejudice the sale, or diminish the profits, or supersede the objects, of the original work.

Once these factors were codified as guidelines in 17 U.S.C. § 107, they were not rendered exclusive. The section was intended by Congress to restate, but not replace, the prior judge-made law. Courts are still entitled to consider other factors as well.

Fair use tempers copyright's exclusive rights to serve the purpose of copyright law, which the U.S. Constitution defines as the promotion of "the Progress of Science and useful Arts" (Art. I, § 8, cl. 8). This principle applies particularly well to the case of criticism and also sheds light on various other limitations on copyright's exclusive rights, particularly the scenes à faire doctrine.

[edit] Purpose and character

The first factor is about whether the use in question helps fulfill the intention of copyright law to stimulate creativity for the enrichment of the general public, or whether it aims to only "supersede the objects" of the original for reasons of personal profit. To justify the use as fair, one must demonstrate how it either advances knowledge or the progress of the arts through the addition of something new. A key consideration is the extent to which the use is interpreted as transformative, as opposed to merely derivative.

When Tom Forsythe appropriated Barbie dolls for his photography project "Food Chain Barbie," Mattel lost its claims of copyright and trademark infringement against him because his work effectively parodies Barbie and the values she represents.[2] But when Jeff Koons tried to justify his appropriation of Art Rogers' photograph "Puppies" in his sculpture "String of Puppies" with the same parody defense, he lost because his work was not presented as a parody of Rogers' photograph in particular, but of society at large, which was deemed insufficiently justificatory.[3]

However, since this case, courts have begun to emphasize the first fair use factor—assessing whether the alleged infringement has transformative use as described by the Hon. Judge Pierre N. Leval.[4] More recently, Koons was involved in a similar case with commercial photographer Andrea Blanch,[5] regarding his use of her photograph for a painting, whereby he appropriated a central portion of an advertisement she had been commissioned to shoot for a magazine. In this case, Koons won; the case sets a favorable precedent for appropriation art where the use is deemed transformative.

The subfactor mentioned in the legislation above, "whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes," has recently been deemphasized in some Circuits "since many, if not most, secondary uses seek at least some measure of commercial gain from their use."[6] More important is whether the use fulfills any of the "preamble purposes" also mentioned in the legislation above, as these have been interpreted as paradigmatically "transformative." Although Judge Pierre Leval has distinguished the first factor as "the soul of fair use," it alone is not determinative. For example, not every educational usage is fair.[7]

[edit] Nature of the copied work

Although the Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the availability of copyright protection should not depend on the artistic quality or merit of a work, fair use analyses consider certain aspects of the work to be relevant, such as whether it is fictional or non-fictional.

To prevent the private ownership of work that rightfully belongs in the public domain, facts and ideas are separate from copyright—only their particular expression or fixation merits such protection. On the other hand, the social usefulness of freely available information can weigh against the appropriateness of copyright for certain fixations. The Zapruder film of the assassination of President Kennedy, for example, was purchased and copyrighted by Time magazine. Yet their copyright was not upheld, in the name of the public interest, when they tried to enjoin the reproduction of stills from the film in a history book on the subject in Time Inc. v. Bernard Geis Associates.[8]

Following the decisions of the Second Circuit in Salinger v. Random House, Inc.[9] and in New Era Publications Int'l v. Henry Holt & Co.,[10] whether the copied work has been previously published suddenly trumped all other considerations because of, in the words of one commentator, "the original author's interest in controlling the circumstances of the first public revelation of his work, and his right, if he so chooses, not to publish at all." Yet some view this importation of certain aspects of France's droit moral d'artiste (moral rights of the artist) into American copyright law as "bizarre and contradictory" because it sometimes grants greater protection to works that were created for private purposes that have little to do with the public goals of copyright law, than to those works that copyright was initially conceived to protect. This is not to claim that unpublished works, or, more specifically, works not intended for publication, do not deserve legal protection, but that any such protection should come from laws about privacy, rather than laws about copyright. The statutory fair use provision was amended in response to these concerns by adding a final sentence: "The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors."

[edit] Amount and substantiality

The third factor assesses the quantity or percentage of the original copyrighted work that has been imported into the new work. In general, the less that is used in relation to the whole, e.g., a few sentences of a text for a book review, the more likely that the sample will be considered fair use. Yet see Sony Corp. v. Universal City Studios for a case in which substantial copying—entire programs for private viewing—was upheld as fair use. Likewise, see Kelly v. Arriba Soft Corporation,where the Ninth Circuit held that copying an entire photo to use as a thumbnail in online search results did not weigh against fair use, "if the secondary user only copies as much as is necessary for his or her intended use." Conversely, in Harper & Row, Publishers, Inc. v. Nation Enters,[11] the use of less than 400 words from President Ford's memoir by a political opinion magazine was interpreted as infringement because those few words represented "the heart of the book" and were, as such, substantial.

Before 1991, sampling in certain genres of music was accepted practice and such copyright considerations as these were viewed as largely irrelevant. The strict decision against rapper Biz Markie's appropriation of a Gilbert O'Sullivan song in the case Grand Upright Music, Ltd. v. Warner Bros. Records, Inc.[12] changed practices and opinions overnight. Samples now had to be licensed, as long as they rose "to a level of legally cognizable appropriation."[13] In other words, de minimis sampling was still considered fair and free because, traditionally, "the law does not care about trifles." The recent Sixth Circuit Court decision in the appeal to Bridgeport Music has reversed this standing, eliminating the de minimis defense for samples of recorded music, but stating that the decision did not apply to fair use.

[edit] Effect upon work's value

The fourth factor measures the effect that the allegedly infringing use has had on the copyright owner's ability to exploit his original work. The court not only investigates whether the defendant's specific use of the work has significantly harmed the copyright owner's market, but also whether such uses in general, if widespread, would harm the potential market of the original. The burden of proof here rests on the defendant for commercial uses, but on the copyright owner for noncommercial uses. See Sony Corp. v. Universal City Studios,[14] where the copyright owner, Universal, failed to provide any empirical evidence that the use of Betamax had either reduced their viewership or negatively impacted their business. In the aforementioned Nation case regarding President Ford's memoirs, the Supreme Court labeled this factor "the single most important element of fair use" and it has indeed enjoyed some level of primacy in fair use analyses ever since. Yet the Supreme Court's more recent announcement in Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc.[15] that "all [four factors] are to be explored, and the results weighed together, in light of the purposes of copyright" has helped modulate this emphasis in interpretation.

In evaluating the fourth factor, courts often consider two kinds of harm to the potential market of the original work: First, courts consider whether the use in question acts as a direct market substitute for the original work. In the judgement of the Supreme Court in Acuff-Rose Music they decisively stated that, "when a commercial use amounts to mere duplication of the entirety of the original, it clearly supersedes the object of the original and serves as a market replacement for it, making it likely that cognizable market harm to the original will occur." In one instance, a court ruled that this factor weighed against a defendant who had made unauthorized movie trailers for video retailers, since his trailers acted as direct substitutes for the copyright owner's official trailers.[16] Second, courts also consider whether potential market harm might exist beyond that of direct substitution, such as in the potential existence of a licensing market. This consideration has weighed against commercial copy shops that make copies of articles in course-pack for college students, when a market already existed for the licensing of course-pack copies.[17]

Courts recognize that certain kinds of market harm do not oppose fair use, such as when a parody or negative review impairs the market of the original work. Copyright considerations may not shield a work against adverse criticism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Post edited 137 days ago
137 days ago
Inspire Emotion

David said:

"Obviously you haven't read anything I've said here. If I simply wanted to comment on the photo I would have left the comment on his blog. I'll say it again. I did not claim the image as my own."

You may not use a copyrighted image without meeting the qualifications for fair use. What you did is NOT fair use. I read what you said, and think you need to learn more about copyright law. Images may be used under fair use, but what you did is not fair use. Arguing is not going to change that.

Glam

Post edited 137 days ago
137 days ago
Welcome To Earth David

I think the only thing I need to learn is to find out whether or not someone is worth spending the time or effort to deal with before giving recognition to them. I have learned absolutely that this guy is not worth the time.

137 days ago
Inspire Emotion

Ya know, David, copyright law is something that any blogger needs to concern themselves with. Otherwise, it can become very expensive.

And, just to be clear, if I were NYC, I would have been angry too. You should think about how you would feel.

Glam

137 days ago
Welcome To Earth David
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