Just out of curiosity - how does a blog with 24 RSS subscribers pass me with 1200 RSS subscribers on the popular list in the Internet Marketing category?

Is there some sneaky trick I haven't heard off?

Drop moar cards, advertise moar.

Does that influence your 'popularity rank' ?

the more cards you drop, the more people that look at your card and visit your site. The more cards that get dropped on you, the more popular you are.

Yup, that's pretty much how it works.

no, you just havent been getting enough drops.

cost to advertise = # of cards dropped on you x 2

http://entrecard.com/blog/?p=58

not gaming as we know it, its a new kind of gaming.. dropping slowly enough not to get busted but fast enough not to give a crap about the sites visited..

"Most Popular" with entrecarders, not most popular with the general public. Now get that widget up above the fold so I have a reason to visit :)

Looks like 3 sites have your back John... and everybody's friend Sam Freedom right on your heels... at this rate you will be on the second line in your group by next week.... better get droppin and re-arrange your whole site to allow for the great looking entrecard widget to get prime spot like Sam Freedom did..

As others have said, your popularity is your popularity among Entrecard users, not the public at large. Most of those who are now in the top 3 in the popular categories have been relatively aggressive both at getting their readers on-board, and heavily active within the community itself - both actions which lead to more drops and thus an increase in their drop rating/popularity.

To be quite honest, at the moment I believe "chain droppers" are disproportionately represented in the popularity statistics. If you end up on their drop list you're basically guaranteed a drop a day. As the site matures this is likely to level out as users move from their initial addiction to a more sustainable level of interaction and larger numbers of users bring it more in line with "the public".

But that said, it is likely to always be true that those who interact heavily on Entrecard will see the most gains from it. It's not necessary to do so, merely being present appears to convey a reasonable benefit, but you do get what you put in.

Don't be a slacker :}} .drop a card on a friend.

plus I got a sneeky little trick :}

Total Web Review: The more I drop my card, the more people look at my site? You mean click over to drop their card and move on.

Turnip of Power: Entrecard is a way to get your blog noticed online by other bloggers. If you just try to become popular with your fellow entrecard users, you're kind of missing the point I believe.

Phirate: same goes to you. Are you trying to build up an internal 'popularity' contest, where everyone just keeps dropping till they get too expensive for 'non-power user' to advertise on?

I hardly drop a card, unless I am reading a blog and see the widget. I've hardly advertised on other blogs because I don't need it. Instead, I keep giving away the credits I have accumulated on my blog, 750 at a time, so the 'normal' users here can afford a spot on a ridiculously overpriced blog.

Why would you waste nearly 300 credits on a blog with 24 rss subscribers when you can get on JohnChow, who has 15,000 rss subscribers for 260?!

Perhaps Entrecard isn't growing into what I thought it would become. Nearly getting forced to drop your cards on other blogs (with a extremely high bounce rate) doesn't make me feel welcome and I will have to reconsider using entrecard.

I'm going to agree with Mr. Cow for a change. I was in the first group of bloggers to join EC and as the months have gone by, I've noticed the one thing I predicted when I posted about it- the clique aspect that all social networks turn into. I have posted about EC many times, encouraging other bloggers to not just drop and run- to take a little time and read a post or two, but now it seems the service is all about who is at the top, who can pay other bloggers by holding contests to be at the top, (I'm talking cash and material prizes, not credits or general blogging services). To see a blog with little content, low reader, (if any), interaction and not even ranking outside of EC is a little ridiculous. What's the point? EC was supposed to be a place to find new blogs to read and for others to find you. Now it's spam messages asking to write recommendations and credit wars. Did I NEED EC? No, but I liked the concept and wanted to seek new blogs. I've found a few I keep up with simply because those bloggers do comment and interact. THIS is what EC should be-not who is popular or not popular.

Oh and this: "As others have said, your popularity is your popularity among Entrecard users, not the public at large. Most of those who are now in the top 3 in the popular categories have been relatively aggressive both at getting their readers on-board, and heavily active within the community itself - both actions which lead to more drops and thus an increase in their drop rating/popularity."

A little odd, since I've been very active since day one.

Interesting, Girlie Geek, looking at your article about male bosses I see several entrecarders posting comments. I read that article last night also, but chose not to vent my disagreement. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Why does it pain you so to see a smaller blog rank ahead of someone else in a silly category? Pagerank, alexa rank, technorati rank, bloglines, rss subscribers, do these matter? All of them are "gamed". If I wanted to, I could give away $1000 to a lucky RSS subscriber. Does my blog suddenly have value in your eyes after the contest that it didn't have before, bases on RSS stats? Some might say yes, others would disagree.

Turnip of Power, the whole point of entrecard is to get noticed in the blogosphere. So yes, pagerank, alexa rank, technorati rank, bloglines, rss subscribers, they would matter.

This thread makes my teeth itch.

Mostly this is a question of vision. Do we want a place where people feel that they need to chain drop to survive? absolutely not. Do we want a place where people feel encouraged to interact with each other, to discover and read some new blogs, to learn and to share their knowledge? yeah, that's pretty much what we're after.

I feel that the current system is heading the right way. We're not perfect, I'm the first to admit that - you should see the road map, we have a long way to go! but from what I've seen (bias intact :) we seem to be doing an alright job.

Now, I am definitely taking your comments onboard. I can understand it's frustrating right now if you've worked hard on the internet as a whole to become a popular blogger but turn up at Entrecard to find that the system doesn't recognize that popularity. What would be helpful is suggestions on ways we could do better, without demolishing something that mostly works.

For example, we have multiple tabs in the campaign/browse area right now. It is not unreasonable that we could add another two, "Popular : Alexa" and "Popular : RSS" or something like that, granting blogs who have worked hard on those areas more visibility, and giving everyone more ways of finding interesting blogs.

Other ideas welcome.

It has nothing to do with being frustrated to see someone else take the 'popular' spot on entrecard. It has to do that it is creating a distorted vision of the traffic and exposure value of a blog. Being popular in entrecard now doesn't equal being a popular blog where it matters if you're looking to advertise on a high traffic blog - the blogosphere.

Here's a suggestion. Build in a timer in the widget. If someone visits a blog with the widget, they'll have to wait a certain period of time before it allows the visitor to drop the card. It reduces bouncerates, discourages the chain droppers that are just inflating their numbers and lets a visitor actually spend time on a blog, to see if they like it enough to return.

Not a good idea. Should we remove names from your mailing list if they joined only to win a contest, or remove them from RSS subscriber lists because they "mark all articles read" without actually reading them? Obviously not. There is also the practical reason that when I chain drop, I open 50 sites at once, alt tab to the game I was playing, then a few minutes later alt tab back to firefox. I could have a site open for an hour if I am posting comments somewhere else. Seems to me the only issue here is entrecarders dropping on sites other than your own, thus making them "appear" to be somehow more valuable to advertisers. For most of the community, those doing the clicking are the real target. It's a "I'll visit your blog if you visit mine deal". Strangers who come to investigate are a nice benefit, but not the goal. That may not be the way the system was designed, but thats how it has been functioning.

With all due respect, Mr. Cow, I have to point out that when Entrecard had 35 or so members and I was with only one other blog in my category at that time (self improvement before lifestyle), "Blogosphere Popularity" mattered a lot. Meaning, whoever went in Entrecard recently will see both our logos, and click that one that's more familiar. Now, this has changed, and with the way the dashboard works, people will drop and visit the ones who dropped on them first before looking for their favorites in the campaign section.

I posted something like this in my blog. I said that entrecard will shift the way blogs are noticed in the blogosphere, and

• help and encourage the new bloggers to maintain and improve their blogs;
• challenge the bigger ones to keep their readers interested (because of the emergence of new quality blogs);
• and basically just turn off those who refuse to maximize the service to their advantage by not participating in any activity.

Having said that, I do think that the "most popular" and therefore most active person in Entrecard was not the most popular blog in the blogosphere, but with the buzz created by Entrecard he will be....

Evil Woobie, the main reason for entrecard was to get your name out there, on popular blogs with loads of traffic.

Now it seems its increasingly becoming more of a community focused project, of which there are already plenty on my opinion.

Yes, sir Cow, I agree that getting my logo out there on the popular blogs will get me eyeballs from the massive flow of internet traffic... whether blogger or not a blogger. This was my goal when I joined, to advertise for free in JC (the Chow) and JC (the Cow)'s blog among others without paying the $400 or so review fee.

But there is a side effect to being in Entrecard that I did not count on. And that is, introducing myself to other bloggers whose goal is the same as mine: to blog and earn money in the process, and be friends with them.

There is a certain attention-grabbing aspect to seeing a blog on your "recent droppers" list all the time. I get curious and visit, I like what I see and I subscribe. then, I recommend to others.

This 'side effect' is very nice for quality blogs who just cannot afford Adwords yet, like me.

Entrecard is about blogs having a chance at exposure. Whether through advertising at bigger blogs or being noticed in the community.

However, my blog is living proof that the exact concept you mentioned is working here. Sure, I have a contest. It brings in a couple of people to check it out and some of them end up reading my blog and liking it. But most of my traffic that I receive from Entrecard is because I place advertisements on the bigger blogs. So the reason I have the "most popular" blog is because I've taken advantage of the exact thing you, John Cow, are saying Entrecard is all about.

I think the system works. And even if I didn't get as involved in the community as I do because I love the people here, as long as I advertised on the big blogs, I'd still be high up in the charts. I DO check stats for blogs before spending 200-300 credits on them.

And as for my own blog, people who have managed to advertise on it have told me that it has worked quite well for them in visits.

My blog may be smaller and have less stats (which the PageRank stat means nothing because I joined PayPerPost a while back and got the PR0 slap like everyone else) than yours, or John Chows, or Probloggers, but I still do have dedicated readers who enjoy my ever increasing content. And I owe that to Entrecard and being able to advertise on the big named blogs.

And as Woobie has stated, I'm made some great blogger friends along the way. It only comes natural when a community exists with communication abilities (such as forums) that people will form relationships.

John Cow left......

http://www.johncow.com/they-are-killing-entrecard/

Hahahaha. Big Bad John Cow is jealous of Mr. Fat America. Cow vs. Fatty. I just can't get over that.

Left a comment for you Miss Poop Scoop.

http://lookingforscoop.com/2007/10/11/america-is-unhealthy/#comment-7..

Someone should really clearing out pests like you from a community like this.

I read about this at the Turnip's (whom I wouldn't be reading if not for EC). I said this:

"I guess he’s so important that a few more readers lost doesn’t matter? I’m not an SEO/Internet Marketing person, so I’m exactly the kind of person that he should want to convert to a reader. Right? I’m more likely to click on ads and convert to money for him (am I on track with this?). Does he think that he’s so important that EC should just highlight his card prominently just because?

Honestly, I’ve got no interest in what he’s selling, but there is a market in EC that may have been converted into more readers for this guy.

Look, I would never have stopped by to comment if you weren’t a member of EC, so now you’ve hooked me. See what he’s missing?

I hate snobs. sigh"

There are actually a few members of the community who aren't in it just for the dollah-dollah bills. I'm one. If Phirate feels that they should change the rules so the A-Listers can stay high up on their thrones and look down on the rest of the 'sphere, then EC isn't for me.

Are you looking for new readers to convert into Cow worshippers or just looking to get stroked by the same ol' same ol'?

Beth, I stop by your spot and read quite frequently. I've commented before also, but I guess I don't warrant noticing since I'm such a small frog. sigh

Funny, I see 2000 blogs here and the most common question is: "How can I effectively monetize my blog?" And how much do I have to pay to get these people to my site? Nothing? So what's the catch? The catch is nobody cares about how big your blog or ego is outside the entrecard ecosystem. Quite a concept for those sitting on top of the blogosphere watching hordes of imitators copy their every move. A simple mention on his site like "hey, don't forget to drop your card" would have propelled him to the top of his category again. Oh well, I'm one of those that read his site AFTER I droped my 300 for the day. That won't change.

This horde mentality is exactly what's causing the problem. People gang up, form cliques and all they do is pat each other on the back.

We didn't 'attack' anyone personally, we made an observation, decided this was not for us anymore and dropped it.

Now all over sudden we're called snob, out of touch with the little guys, disrespectful to the community.

Wonder if you guys would have the same attitude towards a blogger with a blog just as big as yours, if they'd quit.

Its so easy to take the position of the underdog, claiming we've got fanboys in your posts. What are you so angry and frustrated for, really? What did we do that was oh so bad?

We're quite disappointed in the way some of you have reacted, posting about this drama you've created, taking everything out of context. Guess the community feeling stops at the door doesn't it.

I have been a EC'er for a little over two days now. I have quickly kicked myself pasted the newbie status by hitting the forums and reading what the "old heads" think. Here is what I got....

EC has a great concept of gaining blogs exposure that may not otherwise get them, such as PLAYTHERE.com, etc, etc, etc. However, with the high prices of the the sites that could get you decent traffic if you were to appear on their site, the average EC'er is now forced to chain drop just to raise enough to appear on those high traffic sites which in affect dilutes the entire purpose of EC to begin with or hit loads of contests. Some you love has now become work which loses its luster.

I read John Cow's reason for leaving to to a great extent he is correct in this aspect... what started out as a community to gain exposure for all has become a popularity contest.

I cannot tell you the who/what/when/where/why/how of this situation but I can tell it is here. The main question is "NOW WHAT EC?"

To begin with, my reply was not meant to be a "big blog/little blog" war. Not once did I mention I was even near the likes of John Cow/John Chow, (or any better/bigger than those of you who have responded)-they signed up with EntreCard for different reasons, however Mr. Cow and I happen to agree on one thing. I signed up to find new blogs and new readers. This is what networking is-for instance, think of networking in the business world. You have a product or service you want to market and you introduce it to as many people as possible, making contacts along the way. Some of these people will be in the same type of business as you-others will be in a completely different market but you can't risk not giving a new/different market a chance because who knows how it will help your product/service in the long run. You insult the other market and you've lost potential exposure which equals money. Blogging and social networking are the same. You as a blogger market your blog in the hopes of gaining new readers and finding other niches to market your blog in. Why? Exposure. Exposure. Exposure. EntreCard is starting to show the ugly side of networking.

"Interesting, Girlie Geek, looking at your article about male bosses I see several entrecarders posting comments. I read that article last night also, but chose not to vent my disagreement. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Why does it pain you so to see a smaller blog rank ahead of someone else in a silly category? Pagerank, alexa rank, technorati rank, bloglines, rss subscribers, do these matter? All of them are "gamed". Turnip: Not once did I personally attack anyone. I never said I had no EntreCard users who commented. By you NOT commenting shows one thing- you dropped your card and ran. If you disagreed with my post, which by the way was meant to be humorous due to a situation that happened this last week-and had you taken the time to read 2 posts below you would have known-and uh, I am in the humor category, at any rate disagreeing and letting another blogger know can be a good thing. Why? Because you're interacting. You just proved my point of bloggers not even paying attention to another bloggers category or writing style. And yes all rankings matter in the long run-are they gamed? I'm sure they are, but some of us have worked hard by not gaming the systems to get to where we are.

"Beth, I stop by your spot and read quite frequently. I've commented before also, but I guess I don't warrant noticing since I'm such a small frog. sigh" Jinxed: Did I ever say no one was welcome to comment on my blog? Not once. Have you gone unnoticed? Absolutely not. I have yet to reject a blogger wanting to advertise on my site. Why? Because I still believe in the concept, despite it's obvious flaws. Every blog, big or small deserves the chance- and not to be left out because cliques form.

"I feel that the current system is heading the right way. We're not perfect, I'm the first to admit that - you should see the road map, we have a long way to go! but from what I've seen (bias intact :) we seem to be doing an alright job."

Phirate: Of course you're biased an it's understandable. But what the team behind EC needs to see is where this is really headed. A new blogger signs up, wants to advertise on a well-known blog, but can't because the cost is over 400 credits. Then yes, this blogger does have to chain drop cards to accumulate the 400 credits for ONE advertising spot. Is this fair to the newer blog? No, it isn't. I think there should be a cap of some type on the amount a blog can cost, -as Turnip said- dropping 300 cards in a day? Not everyone has the time to do so, which is a disadvantage. Some days I drop 80 cards, some days 20-it depends on the time I have to do so. Should I as a blogger be left out because I can't spend 12+ hours online dropping cards? No. I'm sure others feel the same.

EC could benefit all of us- if we could come to an agreement somewhere in the middle of how it should work in the long run-because they way I see it now, it won't be long before bloggers leave, or stop using the service and then where will we be? Back to using other social network sites like Blog Catalog and MyBlogLog-which both started out promising like EntreCard, but turned into spam-ridden cliques of bloggers looking for ways to make money and game the systems.

John is right.

Entrecard has its place, but beyond a point it is a lot of work for very little payoff.

I don't really believe that any human can visit 300 blogs a day in good faith and honestly say they are reading them. If you hit the cap (and I have several times) you are just chain dropping.

If you want to maximize the system, you MUST chain drop.

If you really want to avoid chain dropping, then why not set a limit of 100 rather than 300? Is 100 blogs a day really unreasonable? If you do 100, odds are you are still chain dropping. Your not really reading 100 blogs. (You can follow that many RSS feeds a day, but if you are following 100 RSS feeds, not all of them will post every day. Entrecard lets you revisit sites with stale content since you last visited).

The general idea behind Entrecard is good. The way it is implemented needs serious work.

The entire purpose of a pricing system (and I'm talking in a generic sense) is to distill information. When you have distortions in the price system, you have shortages or surpluses.

Anyone here able to get an ad on JohnChow? Of course not. It is totally luck. The price is irreverent to the demand and the real value you get from having your card on the site.

My first two weeks in the system, I went nuts dropping cards. Then, because I had to get with the traveling, I dropped to almost zero. My site value dropped almost 100 points, but my overall site traffic went UP.

There are a lot of Entrecard fanboys here. It is a good idea. I'm not quitting because it is still worth it even if I drop 20 cards a day.

But you are fooling yourself if you think its perfect. The longer they go without making serious changes, the more pissed off everyone will be when the do make the changes and all the people who have a vested interest in the status quo get shafted.

To answer John Cow's question, why would someone pay 400 credits for a site that gets a fraction of the traffic of one that is worth only 250 credits... it is because the real factor of getting on a blog is luck, not the price of the site. Anyone can get enough credits in 1 day of clicking to pay for an ad on any site in the system. There are so many contests now you can't keep track of them. The was a post a while back on how many credits people were sitting on. The average was hundreds to thousands.

Site price is irreverent.

The ONLY point to having a high site price is to get your 125x125 ad displayed on the first page. That's it. As more and more sites join, the effort involved in keeping it that high becomes less and less worth it.

John is right.

Entrecard has its place, but beyond a point it is a lot of work for very little payoff.

I don't really believe that any human can visit 300 blogs a day in good faith and honestly say they are reading them. If you hit the cap (and I have several times) you are just chain dropping.

If you want to maximize the system, you MUST chain drop.

If you really want to avoid chain dropping, then why not set a limit of 100 rather than 300? Is 100 blogs a day really unreasonable? If you do 100, odds are you are still chain dropping. Your not really reading 100 blogs. (You can follow that many RSS feeds a day, but if you are following 100 RSS feeds, not all of them will post every day. Entrecard lets you revisit sites with stale content since you last visited).

The general idea behind Entrecard is good. The way it is implemented needs serious work.

The entire purpose of a pricing system (and I'm talking in a generic sense) is to distill information. When you have distortions in the price system, you have shortages or surpluses.

Anyone here able to get an ad on JohnChow? Of course not. It is totally luck. The price is irreverent to the demand and the real value you get from having your card on the site.

My first two weeks in the system, I went nuts dropping cards. Then, because I had to get with the traveling, I dropped to almost zero. My site value dropped almost 100 points, but my overall site traffic went UP.

There are a lot of Entrecard fanboys here. It is a good idea. I'm not quitting because it is still worth it even if I drop 20 cards a day.

But you are fooling yourself if you think its perfect. The longer they go without making serious changes, the more pissed off everyone will be when the do make the changes and all the people who have a vested interest in the status quo get shafted.

To answer John Cow's question, why would someone pay 400 credits for a site that gets a fraction of the traffic of one that is worth only 250 credits... it is because the real factor of getting on a blog is luck, not the price of the site. Anyone can get enough credits in 1 day of clicking to pay for an ad on any site in the system. There are so many contests now you can't keep track of them. The was a post a while back on how many credits people were sitting on. The average was hundreds to thousands.

Site price is irreverent.

The ONLY point to having a high site price is to get your 125x125 ad displayed on the first page. That's it. As more and more sites join, the effort involved in keeping it that high becomes less and less worth it.

Someone really didn't read the small print!

I really can't see what the fuss is about...I've used EC for a while and seen my visitors and bounce rates affected, but that was to be expected at the moment.

But the great thing is that while most bounce, some readers stay, read, comment, and subscribe via RSS.

And that's just down to having a blog and content that might attract people whilst they're scrolling down...

If you're that worried, why not go and complain about people gaming Digg, or any other site which sends users your way?

I'm not arguing that at the moment that it's a shame most people, including myself, will end up dropping on sites that I end up not reading, but a lot of the time that could be clicking on an ad on someone's site and ending up on a blog about a topic I'm not interested in...