I think it's very important that you all read my post on what I think is going to happen to EntreCard.

http://www.slamblogger.com/2008/01/how-to-kill-entrecard/

I don't want to see EntreCard Die!

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

First:

You called the Entrecard credits worthless. I don't think the thousand plus people here would appreciate that. It takes WORK to earn those credits.

Second:

"How does entrecard make money?

Once per day we will allow a larger company to drop their card into the inbox across the entire network. This will not appear on your website anywhere, but rather only in your inbox when you log into entrecard. You will also receive 5 bonus credits for visiting these sponsors. We will also allow for sponsorship opportunities for our system emails and all of our RSS feeds. When the economy is in great shape, we will roll out a credit exchange for bloggers to sell their credits to advertisers, and we will take a commission."

That's taken straight from the FAQ. They plan on giving us an even easier way of selling the credits.

Third:

What do you think the shop is? It's a way of "selling" credits for tangible/digital goods. And the shop is BOOSTING the value of Entrecard.

Fourth:

"Also, if credits could be bought, then there would be no reason for people to drop cards, thus making the program useless for users that are a little bit on the “poor” side."

There's always a reason to drop cards. Having credits doesn't boost your popularity other than being able to advertise on more popular sites. But that only increases your drops during "chaindropping" sessions. It doesn't mean people will KEEP dropping their cards on you. You still have to drop to get your name out there.

Look at John Chow. He was the most popular blog on that list forever. But he doesn't truly participate in this community, and therefore his popularity dropped.

Conclusion:

Giving those credits value gives the work we do here even more value. Those credits aren't WORTHLESS. They are the product of sweat and tears as any Entrecarder can tell you. Giving those credits value can only increase the benefits of Entrecard. Giving those credits value gives Entrecard even more value, and therefore provides a better chance that it will be here in years to come, serving the blogger community.

Way to shut me down!

You must want a post on my blog....

Credit's aren't "Worthless" but, looking at it in a realistic since, you didn't pay for them, so they have no monetary value. That's what I meant. As stated in the post, I spend MOST of my time on the internet doing EC related things. I'm sorry if I offended anyone by calling them worthless. (The post is on SlamBlogger, what do you expect?)

Thanks for the response.

No value?

They have the same value as money does

A an agreed amount in exchange for your time of dropping/earning them (the same as working for money) B purchasing goods/services/advertising with your earned credits (the same as spending money)

Okay, to end the argument on "Worthless" or not "Worthless" You can't pay for gas with EC credits can you? No you can't...

Saphrym. I've posted a reply. :)

http://www.slamblogger.com/2008/01/saphrym-didnt-like-my-post-but-entr..

(Ethan, I tried posting a reply at your site, but it didn't work. So I'm posting it here instead)

I get my readers from other sources. Personally, I don't care much about EC credits. My "ad rating" went from 77 to 23 in less than a week because I don't drop/get-dropped/campaign. However, I find the EC community to be an active and caring bunch of bloggers, so the system works just because of the people involved. It is a good thing EC has no monetary value, otherwise it becomes that ugly obsession that we're all familiar with.

I'm not one to try and make a "quick buck." The items I've sold in the shop have been things I had to work to do. I've sold original articles and graphics design. I'd like to think those had a monetary value. I'd like to think that the $10.00 gift cards for 1250 ec have a monetary value.

http://entrecard.com/shop/15/

But if I'm wrong, that's fine, I will "go gently into that good night." If the majority feel the way that SlamBlogger and the others do, I will gladly remove my auction and GIVE the 1000 ec to whoever the current highest bidder is.

@SlamBlogger

You're just as bad as Google trying to tell people what they can and can't do with their own property.

"You can't pay for gas with EC credits can you?"

I just sold a $10.00 gas card to someone for 1000ec. So, yeah, you can.

So 1 you obtain credits, 2 sell them, 3 fill up your car using the cash to pay for the petrol.

One extra step that still results in the credits having value, you just need to exchange the credits into cash. The same as when I exchange Yen for Australian Dollars, what has value in one system doesn't in another - but there are people who are prepared to buy/sell and exchange (for a fee).

I want Adii's news theme so badly but I don't have 7500 EC. I want a flat screen panasonic so badly but I dont have 1000 dollars. I want to advertise so badly on some sites I really like, but they're not on Entrecard!!!... yet.

EC has value. It's even a reason why some would join my contest.

The irony right now is that Entrecard Credits could actually be worth MORE than the US Dollar soon. Soon, we'll be buying oil with them.

lol. well the dollar is worth less and less, though my Canadian friends seem happy

Cant Get Rich posted about the same issue as well.

http://www.cantgetrich.com/2007/12/30/entrecard-credits-as-a-virtual-c..

Hey, wait, he has a point. I mean I can't buy a double whopper with cheese with my Wal Mart gift card either. That's it I'm tossin' it in the trash.

Maybe entrecard should peg it's value to the Euro 1:1 instead of the USD

:)

On second thought, I can't buy gas with Mrs. Morgan's Fredericks of Hollywood card either, but I'm telling you that thing is priceless.

I was amazed at what a trashy neighborhood Hollywood was by the time I got around to visiting. (speaking of Frederick's)

I think that the problem with placing a monetary value to entrecard will eventually be an entrecard inflation. The problem is that the entrecard owner, the admin, can create entrecards at any point. So if the money supply is not regulated , any addition to it would create problems in the short run and possibly make the whole entrecard "economy" highly dysfunctional in the long run. What I see happening is that at some point when the number of new participants in the entrecard "economy" stops increasing the admins might consider pumping in credits at low prices to keep everything going. then the value to advertise on a blog could fluctuate disproportionately to the number of hits that page gets. I don't know how valid my parallel is but I am open to discussion...

This is such a non-issue. It's like asking what is the true value of a Yankees ticket or concert ticket. It's worth whatever the buyer and seller agree upon. Saphrym selling the credits does nothing but advertise the worth of entrecard. If $1000 cr sold for 5 cents, that would have made the company look like a joke, but they are going for more and showing the world the credits do have value. I thought it was a great idea.

QUOTE "If $1000 cr sold for 5 cents, that would have made the company look like a joke, but they are going for more and showing the world the credits do have value."

very true, I am happy to see them have value, I just dont want to see the day that someone is selling them for pennies for thousands, if we all respect the system it wont be a problem.

Note : My post was not meant to be a "Let's Stop Saphrym's Auction" post.... I viewed the ebay selling of credits to be a test,and only a test. My post was supposed to let people know that selling EntreCard credits, could quickly cause EC to become overrun with spam!

I agree with the Turnip. Worth is derived from supply and demand. A peanut butter cup is worthless to someone allergic to peanuts. Personally, I like peanut butter cups.

Is your limb comfortable Slam?

(Ha! And he calls himself a slam blogger.)

Agreed but for the sake of argument... , would you pay 10 bucks for a cup when you can get it for 10 cents? What if you bought a peanutbutter cup for 10 bucks and then was worth 1 cent, just because someone decided to sell credidts for a much lower price?

If there's only a certain amount of cups in the world and you really want one, yes you pay more. All goes back to supply and demand.

Here's another issue. Clowns could sell the credits, collect the money from paypal, then never send the credits. Buy from established entrecarders you say? Hell, just spoof someone elses name for eBay. If I ever do decide to sell credits, the sale will take place on my site. That way people can place some value of trust in the transaction. In Saphrym's case. He already is an established eBay seller, so no worries there.

http://fukblogger.blogspot.com/2008/01/how-entrecard-works.htm.. Found this before the ink on my last post was even dry.

That's why I liked what I saw in the FAQ. They plan on making a system to sell them here on the site. That should help with the trust issues.

I know what saphrym is talking about. I took about 3 days off from dropping cards just as an experiment and I fell waaaay off the boat. I used to be in the top 3 to 5 on the most popular all the time. After just a few days of non-dropping, I fell way down. I am going to start a new discussion about this.

At the thread starter,

Please let's not spoil the fun while it's still growing. If this system gets mismanaged somehow or whatever, let's all btch about it together...

but not now while we're lucky enough to be here ahead of everyone else.

A warning is good, but your post simply doesn't point out why someone could like the system. It will confuse people and will lead to lemmings saying "i heard from this guy that the system will fail.. etc..." and won't join.

Let's stay positive.

Credits are a resource the same as money. It's an intermediary step (buyer -- credit/money/cowties -- seller] to get what one wants. If there wasn't money, there would be direct exchanging of goods. So, whether it is paper money or electronic credits, they both hold a similar value to me, and are not worthless.

that ] should be a )

cowties = cowries

@ideasandmoney Regarding the statement that we can just make credits up out of nowhere. it's true, we can. We have not done so since the first day on Entrecard - I know, I'm the only one who can do it (There's no user-friendly interface for it :)

The total number of vapour-generated credits on Entrecard is something like 200ec, and most of those have been consumed by tax at this point.

We have no need to create credits out of nowhere to provide liquidity, the Entrecard economy doesn't have a debt system. As a consequence inflation by admin intervention is very unlikely.

We work hard to ensure that any credits that the Entrecard system provides are the result of someone working for them, for example anything I spend is the result of drops or purchases from the shop.

I think the only way that inflation will happen is if Phirate turns corrupt and creates millions of ECs out of thin air for him to sell in ebay or to people. The death will come from the management, and as long as they're on top of things, that won't happen.

makes sense!

@evilwoobie muahahaHAHAHAHA*ahem* I mean. me?

:D

I'm glad you appreciate the humor, phirate.

This thread is epic!

For the time being, it's perfectly alright to sell credits on eBay. In fact, it gives us at Entrecard valuable market data. I'm not going to say that we won't disallow this if it becomes a problem at some point. But for now its ok. We want the credit market to remain liquid... liquidity is a good thing.