Entrecard users knew from the start that not everyone was in it for the same reasons and lets face it, there are some blogs we'd rather not waste our time viewing. Blogs that waste our time trying to get rich off their garbage content. Unfortunately, the only system in place as of now, is reviews. Unfortunately, these were being gamed up until recently.

I have a posted a proposal in my blog (including mockup images): http://www.doknowevil.net/2007/12/28/how-about-this-for-entrecard..

Good idea, but voting can be gamed too.

Thank you for your support. Gaming is always a problem but there are solutions that make it less worth the offender's while. I have given two examples in the comments below.

http://www.doknowevil.net/2007/12/28/how-about-this-for-entrecard/#com.. http://www.doknowevil.net/2007/12/28/how-about-this-for-entrecard/#com..

I like the old method - if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Since there’s been no flagrant fouls, you only need to stay out of the forum threads you don’t like and don’t stop to read blogs you don’t enjoy.

What’s so difficult about that?

So far, there’s been no one abusing their system and they already have a built in way to handle crap/nothing/advertising blogs.

I think some people are dead on with the gaming potential which is clearly what you seek to do. It lights you up like a Christmas tree… now delete my comment and go cry in your milk.

And "your argument had substance until you decided to promote your blog."

I believe that quote belongs to you.

Unfortunately there is no way to insert an image into this forum. Therefore I needed to link to my blog to show users what it is I am talking about.

You didn't need images to exaggerate your point of "link farms". I got the idea from the utter mess of a thread you and your marketing buddies made during your dooms day pissing contest.

Ok, so why didn't you just link to an image then?

Btw, I'm just playing with you - I really couldn't give a crap what you do. But you are a hypocrite for linking to your blog.

My blog post contains additional information about the mockup images and valuable feedback from users commenting on the post. Not all Entrecard users utilize the forum and I needed a central data source that I could edit if need be. This thread could get sloppy otherwise.

If the forum was better situated for giving a proposal, I would have utilized it as such.

Many other places exist for voting. Entrecard is unique.

I understand that some users may feel a bit threatened by this system as it can drastically affect their number of hit. However, in such social communities, the integrity of linked content goes a long way.

By limiting themselves in the number of ways they can determine the quality of their links, they are hurting their reputation as a company. For users who come to this site for quality networking, sifting through the bullshit blogs becomes a tedious task.

My proposal allows users to use the application in a more democratic way and isn't Entrecard all about giving the power back to the bloggers?

The democratic process of this site is handled by a few means:

1. Drops: Popularity is handled by number of drops. Don't drop on sites you don't like.
2. Advertising: If you let someone advertise on your site, they will receive more dropped cards by "chain linking." Don't allow the advertising and the popularity will go down.
3. Again, popularity is based on the number of drops. Cost to advertise is based on the number of drops.

So basically, let people advertise on your site if you like their blog. Don't let them advertise if you don't. Don't drop on sites you don't like. Over time, true popular opinion will show up on the popularity pages.

Now, a forum "karma" system would be nice, but kept separate from the Entrecard system.

But of course, the best way to handle a problem in any Internet system is to ignore it completely. Any mention of the problem normally gets it attention that is undeserved.

Yeah, and maybe google should drop their page rank system and just rely on number of clicks.

We can sit here all day and muster up reasons to convince each other why it's perfect as is or use that time to figure out ways to improve the system.

Thank you for your support on the karma system.

I agree that something needs to be done, but I'm also happy that Entrecard is unique to all of the other services out there. I've basically dropped everything else to focus on EC. I love this place and the vocal community.

A voting system would be cool, but it can easily be gamed, or to prevent the gaming, it may become too tedious. The other problem would be accidental clicks, especially if they suddenly changed the system and hundreds of people who don't read the blog or forums just kept clicking during a 1-hour "chain dropping" session.

That's why I think the Karma system needs to be separate from the actual Entrecard system. Basically, a karma system could be in place for the forums. Then a new tab under campaigns could be added that would show "Highest Karma" or whatever they named it. Then people who really cared to make use of the system could go too that tab to start their drops.

That would make it where people could "choose" exactly which system they care to use: popularity, recommendations, or karma.

Does that help as an idea?

You will never stop gaming but you can most certainly limit the amount of it. Just a few functions in place to make gaming not worth while.

Accidental clicks won't matter in the overall statistics.

As I mentioned in the comments on my blog:

"Say a user just rated 10 blogs ‘5′ in the past 30 minutes, we know he’s abusing the system. We can then punish accordingly."

and

"If ‘bob’ selects all users with a specific category and votes them 1. We can punish accordingly."

I disagree with your stance about it becoming "tedious". With a few good functions in place, and the ability to add new ones with ease, it's merely an evolving system. We can't predict with 100% accuracy how users will use the system.

Oh yes, the karma system would be shown in the forum only. Sorry for not making that clear. Someone can be a total asshole in the forums but have a really great site, we need not punish this user globally for an isolated offense.

I agree with your expansion upon the karma system. It adds another layer to 'getting to know your fellow bloggers'

I meant tedious for the site owners. There'd be a lot of "Why am I being punished?" and "I'm removing my widget because of this" type of stuff if the clicks were accidental and caused issues. We don't want people to stop using Entrecard. But to build upon it would be great.

Again, with the number of users actively clicking true clicks, I don't believe accidental clicks to be an issue.

Another thing to note, a user can only vote a blog once. They can CHANGE their vote next time but never have more that one vote per blog.

On a side note, a suggestion I had in my comments was an opt out feature.

Users can choose to use the "Classic Card Drop" system. Which would just bypass voting all together.

This would be the user's option to not participate not the site owner. i.e. "When I go to sites, display the classic card drop system, not the rating".

I think the site developer's have kept things as simple as possible to encourage a user-friendly environment. Every step towards making the rating too detailed would take some of that simplicity away. It's early days yet and it will be interesting to see how the inbuilt measures work to prevent abuse.

The rating system proposal is simple. It's still one click and integrates into the current interface.

The only 'steps to be taken to make it more detailed' would be on the backend side of things to prevent gaming.

An interesting concept - I really like the image mockups.

It is unlikely we will integrate any kind of quality voting system at this time, we have a lot to do and some of the stuff in the pipeline may address the issue sufficiently. That said, I'm delighted to see a well thought out and presented suggestion, thanks :)

I guess the question here, and I'm really leaving our past difference behind, is there a clear and defined need for it. Development usually follows "triage" - things get worked on in the order of most important first.

Sure, we had a heated debate but it was kept to one thread. Other than that, what's been the problem? Or, if we're talking about "prevention" then what problem on the horizon could not be dealt with when it actually began to occur?

I don't think you have a bad idea but just like 9/11 sold the war in the Middle East, I think people need to FEEL a need for what you're saying. Otherwise, all the potential gaming and issues like Saphrym mentioned will their GREATER concern and so they won't want to fix what ain't broken.

I like the idea.

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea too. I'm just trying to see it from different points of view. And after having been a webmaster of two pretty large communities for a couple of years, I'm used to karma systems and how people can game them. It was a pain for me and my admins. But it did help the community to police itself. I'm all for communities policing themselves.

Heck, my favorite thing was the "thank you" and "no thank you" buttons on posts. It was simple and direct and the ratings from it actually helped weed out the problem people.

You mean the rating thingie. You can game that the other way. If the rating of 1 didn't effect your total entrecard points, I would tell everyone to give me 1 star and mock them so I could be the most hated blog. It would probably increase my visits considerably.

Read threads, it helps you not look uninformed.

I'm ok with this. In fact, I like it!!!......In theory, it's sound. But when the personal factor creeps in, won't we see more than "rejected?" threads here in the forums?

Won't the rating system be abused in a way so that a blogger may campaign for another to get lower ratings? I mean look at the new rule on recommendations, it was implemented because of a massive drive of one member to be on top. This wasn't a problem much because recommendations are "positives".

A really bad abuse of this may just result in a grudge-fest. shudder Hopefully Entrecard does something to prevent it.

I've left my comments on your website!

Nope, people like trash, a one star rating would attract people. I read the post. Grudges would make it an even more effective one star mechanism.

So what would speed clickers click?

"Read threads, it helps you not look uninformed."