Musings on the EC economy

Written on August 9th, 2008 by phirate


Some people have started posting some interesting stuff about the economy, and obviously we’ve been thinking about it a lot, so I figured I’d share some thoughts.

Inflation

Inflation in EC has turned out to be an interesting thing indeed. Traditionally, the math basically says that the more credits are around, the less valuable each credit is. With EC things aren’t quite that nicely sliced.

One of the major things we have to balance with is, basically, liquidity. We have X users, and those users must be able to obtain sufficient funds to participate in the economy or it’s all just a waste of space. Since we don’t permit interest-baring loans of any kind, this capital is not readily supplied by “ec investors”. Instead, people obtain credit via dropping or trade.

As a result, there isn’t a great deal of motivation for people holding large amounts of “unspendable” credit to do anything with it except sell it. The fundamental nature of EC is that it lacks luxury goods – there’s nothing you could spend 100,000ec on and feel happy about.

What this all boils down to is that the guiding thing we try and maintain is that the economy increase in line with the increase in active users. We basically want X number of credits in the market with population Y, and X*2 with population Y*2. We’ve been pretty successful in this regard.

Valuation

Valuation is a tricky thing with the credit at the moment. You’ve got a few things missing that a real currency has. EC has mechanisms built into it for the “magical” creation and destruction of credits, EC is only backed by a startup company, not a Government, EC holds all the account balances and can arbitrarily remove your credits without any appeal, and the EC market is relatively limited at the moment.

This is how it should be, people talking of gold-backed currencies etc are missing the point – the credit is there to act as a mechanism to enable trade, it’s not designed as a commodity in itself.

We don’t mind people acting as if it has value, because in any short term window it does – you can reasonably say that if you trade your sock for 10,000ec, you’ve done reasonably well out of the bargain – but only if you then proceed to do something with those EC. The long term prospects are completely impossible to predict, even for us.

The crux of this is that the valuation of the EC is considerably more about perception than translatable value – nobody is doing the math regarding the value of a spot in US$, then in EC for the same spot, then working out what the EC is valued at as a result, they’re buying and selling based almost entirely on what everyone else is buying and selling for.

The reason for this is that everyone doing it is doing it as a hobby at best. While there have been the occasional users who tried to make a lot of money by farming etc, even then all they were interested in was dumping the credits for $ as fast as they could – and coincidentally driving the auction price down – rather than doing a serious valuation.

Spot valuation

I’m only going to touch on this for a moment, but overall the spot pricing system works very well. It is demand driven and does a pretty amazing job of finding the sweet-spot for the pricing for any given blog. Yes it has it’s downsides, notably the big steps at the high end, and we hope to improve it in the future in nice comfortable increments, but overall it works well.

One thing people constantly bring up is the idea that they’d like to be able to set their own price, and I totally get that. EC has done very well out of working hard to let users make decisions about their blog, even when automated solutions might be easier, and it’s kind of counter to this philosphy for us to set the pricing automatically.

The fundamental problem however is just how much time people can afford to put in to managing their valuation. If you wanted to figure out your spot price yourself, you’d need to keep track of all the purchases for people of the same basic profile, work out what your buyers were willing to pay etc etc, and constantly fiddle it to match the changes in perception due to your advertising and promotion – or lack thereof. The pricing system removes all of that, and does an equivalent job for everyone at the same time. It didn’t seem fair to demand so much time and effort out of people, on top of dropping etc.

In addition, it is necessary for the economy as a whole for people to do a good job with the spot valuation. If people under-value their spot, it reduces the tax take, and leads to inflation (or us having to increase the tax rate). There’s the potential there for a kind of spiralling collapse as users “do everyone a favor” by reducing their spot price significantly in an act of goodwill, accidentally undermining the economy as a side effect.

The future

The real question is, how will things change in the future. The credit does it’s job just fine right now, it facilitates trade in both ads, and a number of other things, and the range of purchasables and the stability of the system is increasing all the time.

There are a few things we’re likely to do however.

The first is luxury goods. We’re trying to come up with things that will be worth paying a pile of credits for, to try and get those big credit lots moving without basically being binned at ebay.

The second is general credit sinks. We want to give people more variety in their spending options, because it’s clear that not everyone really wants to advertise – one of the more interesting discoveries is that if the price of advertising goes up, the total spend does not increase, despite the fact that there are credits to spare in “savings”. These credits are essentially dead for advertising purposes – the holders are not willing to spend them on ads – so we’d like to find ways of shaking them lose in a valuable fashion.

The last is that we are in the early stages of considering removing the “magic” from the economy entirely. At the moment, each day X new credits are generated by dropping, and Y credits are removed via the tax system. When they’re removed they’re destroyed, we don’t store them up or anything.

We work to keep these two numbers roughly the same, with the difference basically being new users coming into the system (so, X is expected to be slightly more than Y). What we’re considering doing is linking the two. At the moment, you can drop 300 a day and get a credit for each. In the future, the number of drops you can make may vary slightly depending on the amount of credits taken out via tax the day before. In essence, creating an “economy account” at the back that receives the tax, then dolls it out in the drops.

This would turn inflation from something we manage via the tax rate and credit sinks, to something we can manage directly if necessary, by specifying a % growth of the economy account. This is some time off yet, and may not happen, but the benefit would be a more predictable, transparent economy – which increases trust in the credit and thus inspires more people to use it as a trading tool.

I’m tired now so I’m going to stop typing, but we do read everything people post about the economy with interest, so please don’t stop :)


23 Responses to “Musings on the EC economy”

1
Better Interpersonal Communication Says:

Nice post about the future of the entrecard economy.

The link between the number of drops that can be made in a day and the amount of tax absorbed is interesting and is something that should be definitely looked into.

All things considered, i feel that entrecard is doing a nice job balancing its economy thus far… Great job!!! :)

2
Texaiano Says:

Overall, I love Entrecard and am a big supporter of it. In fact, I have over 4000 ECs that I have accrued over the past few months. In the background, I have been working on developing other sites, which I will soon add to EC. When I do that, I will want to do a blitz advertising campaign. I was already pretty miffed when you throttled the amount of ECs that I could get from my advertising, but if you start charging taxes, I would leave and forfeit everything. I already have a hard enough time dealing with real world taxes. Don’t even think of bringing it into my virtual world!

3
Graham Says:

Hey Texaiano, thanks for the kind words.

I’m not sure if you are aware of this, but when you purchase an ad, 75% of the credits you spend get deleted from the system, while 25% go to the advertiser. This is what Phirate is referring to when he speaks of taxes, and it has been in place since launch on November 7, 2007

4
fragileheart Says:

I’m saving my entrecard credits for the day you guys are able to let me buy airplane tickets to see the love of my life in Ireland. Until then, I’m hoarding them. Thanks for the update on Credits Phi. In all seriousness, I think I’m hoarding my credits because it feels like it takes me forever to get to this stage and I know that sometime soon I may want to buy an ad from say Monkey Fables… well that would eat up half of my credits right away and I may not even get a lot of drops from that spot because of some unbeknownst (yes, I made that up) reason.

Now if only I could apply this ‘hoarding’ habit to real money, I’d be solid.

5
YouForgot Says:

You forgot the most important: the value of credits relative to the time it takes to obtain them.

By any fair valuation of the inputs, EntreCard pays out at sweatshop wage rates.

6
Guttu Says:

Wow!! that is a nice post. It cleared most of the doubts. I am waiting for the day when the shop has some really good things to buy. That will be a great move.

7
Majik Says:

Very interesting post about the EC economy. I try to build credits up by not spending as much on advertising as I earn through drops only to spend those “saved up” credits on a larger advertising campaign.

As for the future, I don’t mind if the amount of drops one can make in a day varies, as long as the variation is above the 300 drop limit. It would be saddening if I couldn’t return most drops on my widget because the limit was set to less then 300 drops in a day. You may end up with a little bit of deflation if the limit drops below 300 and many ads on popular pages will become even more unattainable then they are now.

I understand the tax system but how many credits are being destroyed on average per day? Is it enough to increase the limited number of drops per day or increase it marginally?

8
John Sullivan Says:

Hey
As a longtime and bigtime fan I will say I was getting a little worried
around the time of the fire.Unfortunately there’s a lot of haters online
that are ungrateful and will turn their back on you in a split second.I
was so happy to see you past the adversity and bust out the bad a**
tool bar just to prove to all the jerks you aren’t messing around and
have more skill then they will ever have…..just a fact.
Right now I would buy stock in this company because we both
know that toolbar was just a tease;)
Bring it web 3.0 is locked and loaded
The people on top of their game will be here
everyone else will wherever.Keep up the great job
and thanks for those 250 they came right on time ;)
Best wishes to your continued successes;)
I’ll be cheering off to the side

9
Jaseem Umer Says:

Why not start a government? The government has to do welfare for the users and have the right for the fines from users. It will help to maintain the economy. The ec – $ change must be controlled and run by this govt. Make a user account for this government and give rights that other users don’t have.

10
Guttu Says:

The word government is synonymous with corruption. I as EC user don’t want that here. It should be clean here atleast.

11
Matt Urdan Says:

Graham…I think this is very informative and demonstrates your command of some sophisticated economic principles, but what does it really mean for me as the average entrecarder? I just drop my cards and place my ads the best I can with what I can afford at current market prices.

Thanks!

12
Øyvind Says:

I look forward to a new shop, that will create some action. :)

13
Sullonious Monk Says:

As a newcomer I must say that this is a brilliant plan and very useful for bloggers – myself included. Good to see that the people in charge seem to know what they are talking about when it comes down to the economics of it all.

Great job!

14
My one and only true wish. | POTPOLITICS™ Says:

[...] word out about you and your blog. Last night I made the invite but before I did .I gave the love;) John Sullivan (My other comments) Says: August 10th, 2008 at 1:29 [...]

15
Grandy Says:

I’m not really one that claims to be in the “know” (farthest thing from it actually), but have there been complaints about the way the economy is working? Who Knew?! What? You can’t make everyone happy?

Graham, I like the explanation on the “taxes”. Heehee…I actually caught that I only get part of the credits a while ago.

There are so many things about Entrecard (and even blogging) that I don’t get, but I just hope to go with the flow where I can.

16
Richard Catto Says:

Graham, I think you must do something to seriously stimulate people’s desire to advertise, and you can do that by giving them a reason to click on an EC widget advert.

I’ve proposed this already in the EntreBar thread, but I’d like to state it again.

If you give the person clicking and the publishing blogger 1 EC each for clicking an advert (in addition to the credits earned from dropping), I believe you will seriously revive interest in advertising and people will start spending their EC savings rather than hoarding them, which seems to be the problem you are trying to address.

As for your other ideas, I think you need to write a program to simulate your economy. I suggest Java for this. Aim to simulate at least 10 years of the EC economy based on your current data, growth rates and rules. The program doesn’t need a GUI. It can be a very simple command line program which takes input from a text file where you specify all the variables you wish to play what-if games with. One variable can specify the number of days ahead that you wish to simulate.

Then dump all the simulated data into a CSV file and import it into Excel for further analysis. Or write a second program to analyze the data generated by your first program.

I’ve done this before when I was trying to see if I could predict winning lottery ticket numbers. I couldn’t, but that is an entirely different nut to crack. :)

17
Richard Catto Says:

Tonight I thought about how I could encourage people to spend their EC savings, and I decided that one way is for me to reward my top droppers by advertising with all of them.

So from now on, every week on Monday, whoever my top 10 droppers are, I will advertise with all of them, no matter what it costs me.

I spent 3200 EC on my top 10 droppers tonight.

If other people think this is a good idea, then it will serve to encourage more spending and more loyal dropping.

18
The Ten Rules of EntreCard dropping | Cape Town news Says:

[...] increase your traffic and enlarge your community of regular readers. You do not want to become an EC millionaire. Spend your credits, because it’s just funny money. Dump it regularly on advertising, EVEN IF [...]

19
bm Says:

Can I ask something? Is selling your EC credits prohibited? I’ve seen some selling their EC on their own blog, is that punishable?

20
John Quid Says:

I usually don

21
daniel Says:

The pricing system removes all of that, and does an equivalent job for everyone at the same time.

22
Snow Says:

I agree with bm, is selling your EC credits prohibited? Please confirm. I’ve heard that there are bloggers who do it.

23
Sunwukong Says:

No, it’s not allowed.

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